The endless durp about "10-foot pole" gaming

 

"10-foot pole gaming" is a term I just made up. I could just say "old school" or "classic" or whatever. But I think the 10-foot pole thing as one of the more cartoonish elements of old DnD. Sure, it would have its uses in classic dungeons, or even in the woods to shove down a hole of an abrasive gopher. 

But the image of somebody with one in a dungeon, where there can often be tight squeeze turns (you ever try get a mattress up the turn in a narrow flight of stairs?). Always reminds me of Granpa Munster trying to get through the doorway holding his shovel and the angle requires a couple of tries. I always thought that a simple 5-foot-long quarterstaff would be about as useful. Tie a torch to the end for extra utility. I really feel the original including of this item in equipment lists was a wink and nod to the old saying "would not touch it with a ten-foot pole." 

But I was thinking about this stuff after about a week or so of sampling some of Erik Tenkar's vids. I like to see some of his takes on things going on in gaming and controversies of the years. But lately so much of it seems about how you are having "bad wrong fun" with your DnD while extoling the virtues of (very) basic DM and player styles. And how you are doing it poorly. Having fun? Fuck that. It's wrong fun. Shades of classic Dragonsfoot forum comments. 

I dunno. That asshat Chevy just 
reminds me of a Dragonfoot guy

OK, I like Erik and don't want to get harsh. And I have not watched all (or even half) of such videos he has been posting for weeks. Maybe he does more explaining in some other places. "Hey, this is pretty much about BX gaming and dungeon delving especially. Not to be taken seriously" 

Which would be fair enough, though I am kind of doubting that. So the good constable will start a video, often with one hand up pinching his fingers in a "that's a spicey meatball!" gesture. Then go into his "tavernsplaining" the topic of the day. Usually some fuddy old approach to doors and thieves and listening and retreating and mirrors and clerics are more than healbots and do theater of the mind hex mats ruin everything and henchmen and yada yada. 

"You don't want story. You want spikes to jam doors. You don't want feats and skills and dice rolls. You want a mirror to peak around a corner. Didn't you see Private Ryan? Thar's ah snipah up thar!"

A favorite was about how old school fighters were not all same-same. They should be defined by their weapon they find! Again, if this was just about how to play BX or older shit, it would be fine. It's that type of game. I guess I personally did not sample all the editions. As a little kid I got the three little books and the Monster Manual. Soon after it was 1st edition, and I stayed with it for decades. The boxed sets were all Toy r Us to me and my friends. It was outliers who had the boxes of "baby DnD" who were friends of a friend. I swear to god the one that comes to mind from my teens was totally "Butters" from South Park.

Not saying this is Tenkar, 
it's just my experience

And by the time I was in my later teens, I was kind of tired of the ol' dungeonarooni. Don't get me wrong, the surreal nature of underworld spaces with monsters and nasty magic had big appeal to me. But my GMing was evolving. I was enjoying having things take place in the city and on the road more than the moldy ol' dungeon slog. Outside of Underdark forays, the dungeons I did were smaller lairs and not of the mythic variety. Sure I would go back to old dungeons again and again, but it was no longer what it was all about. It's one of the reasons I had some older times in the character continuity of my setting be known as "The Dungeon Age." It was a time when we were really young and our characters mostly romped in dungeons. 

I think by the time I was around 17, I was more into higher fantasy. Sure, things could be gritty anywhere. But endless dungeon crawls had gotten old hat for not just me, but it seemed that is the way the general gaming populace was going, for good or bad. 

As an aside, I think that since our girlfriends played with us, or just more females in general as we got older, was also a factor. They might like action, but the endless slaying and dark tones was not overall appealing to them. Some might have anti-hero characters who were even capable of murder, but being either a murder hobo or a fearful poltroon spiking doors was not fantasy to them. Making up interesting characters and the development of them during play was far more fun than adhering to notions of "proper dungeoneering techniques." More on all that in a minute. 

Equipment will always be important to one degree or another to players, but being anal retentive as a professional climber prepping for Mt. Everest is not often a priority. Shit, I think though the characters in my last campaign were going to The Isle of Dread they didn't even bring sleeping rolls on the journey. 

I always loved the old dungeon notions, but after those early years the chill at the surreal had less impact on me. They stopped being spooky. Getting into blogging and the OSR around 2009 brought back some of those feels. But it was fleeting. For decades I acted like it was the be all end all. I kept wanting to do a dungeon slog every few years but would end up doing something bigger instead. Like The Night Below, which was for sure a giant dungeon. Though I do recall some characters did prep like a cave climber might for that. But there was a lot of build up to the descent. But still, that was mostly just a long rope, lanterns, and some rations. 

So Erik clearly does not like 5th ed or its players. I mean, when he mimics a 5th ed player there is a lot of eye rolling or using a goofy voice to portray them. At first I thought it was kind of mean, but then I remember I have done this in the past years and decades to goof on some DnD people. Though nowadays I try to be more a Buddhist in my kind understanding (often failing). 

Erik seems to allude to some con running he has done with some old school gew gaw, and the modern players who attended going all slack jawed mouth breathers as they were told there were no feats, skills, or superpowers. 

So maybe he has just had bad experiences with the kids these days not falling in line with proper professional dungeon crawler standard operational procedures, like Hulk Hogans "Hulkamaniacs not following his famous demandments..

Or is Erik just talking to the BX fans out there? And if so, how long have they been doing the hard-core mapping, door listening, mirror using, torch conserving, no background having, fuck feats and skills and rolls and full on dungeon slogs. Decade in and decade out. In my last long time face to face group I ran the three little books plus Greyhawk for a few session break from our 1st ed. And it was fun. I did a few sessions at the Socal Minicon during the salad days of the OSR (the actual one) and a local convention soon after. It was fun to revisit.  But good gawd, for that to be my DnD now? 

I remember years ago watching some footage at a con circa early to mid 2000's of Frank Mentzer running what looked like an ad hoc session for some various con folk (like 12 guys and 1 girl). He just had a couple papers and dice in front of him. It was clearly old school in nature, probably his boxed edition (bestselling version of DnD!!!). But you could tell it was old school, because it took like 45 minutes to map 30 feet of corridor, and another 45 of fumbling around with and gang-listening at a door. Yawn, and that is a capitol Y. 

So after several years of my journey with 5th ed, how does it fit my style? Well, I have been into character development since I was a kid. Not only mine, but that of my players. It's kind of my joy. To preside over something they find so fun. And as far as feats and skills, hell, when I was as young as 15 I was just having players make stat rolls for this and that for things that would probably nowadays been seen as a version of "skills." CHR for persuasion type stuff and seducing, WIS for noticing things (prob inspired by Runequests classic "Spot Hidden") or whatever. 

Erik seems to hate lots of dice rolling. But since my earliest days, it was the funnest part of the game. So I don't mind skills and feats or whatever. And all the choices and builds? It is interesting to me. Like I say I love character development. and Creativity. I come from a Superhero Game background since childhood just like I did for DnD. So these aspects of creating a character are right up my alley. Sure, I have seen the dudes who were candidates to be in my online groups who want to run their Half Beholder Half Minotaur Cyborg Ninja Gunsmith. I have learned to weed them out real quick. My vetting of strangers online has become a specialty for me. And I may scoff at Game of Thrones novel page count character backgrounds a bit, but they can be interesting a lot of the time. And why should I give a fuck if they want that? It gets them to ask about my setting. 

OK, I only pick at Erik Tenkar because I like him. I have been on his Discord for years now. But I am just a bit baffled at his nitpicks at 5th ed players. But also these videos are performance to some degree for streamers. I think it is not so much vitriol as much as it is a bit of mean playfulness. I dunno, there are a bunch of these vids up the last weeks and months, so go watch and you make the call. 

Since This post is already getting long, I will probably watch a few more and post about some things. Hex Mats vs Theater of the Mind kind of stuff. Also, Erik is doing these posts as part of a collaboration with the Greyhawk Grognard guy (I don't know much about him) and Joe the Lawyer. I have not watched a lot of Joe's stuff, but I did look to see how his line of thinking was compared to Erik. I was surprised to hear that much like me he came up old school but now runs 5th edition, and he works at keeping those games old school in flavor much like to try to, so I might want to post about one or two of those video commentaries. But for now, yeah, this is too long. So cheers and have a great weekend. 

And god bless the dice rollers! Its fun!

Professional Dungeon Masters

 

Pictured above: profile pic of a Roll20 forum member

advertising as a "Paid DM" 

In recent months I've been exploring the Roll20 members forums. Here people advertise that they are looking for games to play in, looking to start a campaign, etc. I've been interested, surprised, annoyed, and even appalled (I'll post more on this in the future), but the most stand out thing to me there is the phenomenon of "paid DM's."

Around 10 years ago when I started exploring the "OSR" online, there wasn't much in the way of "professional dungeon masters." Sure, somebody like Frank Mentzer and other mid-level gaming luminaries might be getting a payday for running a convention game. You can make your own call as to whether such sessions are worth the time and money (I try not to be judgmental but I don't find this grizzled veteran very compelling in his refereeing), but I was never much of a convention dude. 

At some point right before I originally started this blog I was lurking around a forum, I think RPG.net, and some young fellow calling himself Captain Kommando or some such made a post discussing the possibility of running games for a living. Apparently he lived with his granny and money was an issue. In order to help he wanted to earn some bucks, and he thought DMing for pay would be a great way to save the homestead. He would don masks and do voices and provide you an interactive experience. That forum, at least then (I have zero recent forum experience; in the past I found forums such as rpg.net and Dragonsfoot to be cesspools of tired old school gamers clinging to tired old notions) was full of people who thought their way of having fun pretending to be elves was superior, and they kind of ate Captain Kommando alive. "pay to play? the hell you say!" But he dug in his heels. I think that after he sat on a train for an hour to go run a free trial game for some folk at a mall food court, and none of them showing up, he gave up on his dream and went back to a regular job search. 

Flash forward some years, and the roll20 "looking for games forum" is full of folk advertising as "paid DM's." Literally 25-35 % of the posts are from DM's looking to get 10-20 bucks a sessions from their players. And they often seem to be able to find a group to pay. They call themselves "legendary DM's" though readily admitting they have only been doing D&D for two or three years. That's gotta chap the ass of anybody doing it for free for decades. Hell, sometimes a group will post looking for a DM to pay. 

Now, none of that really appeals to me. For one thing I don't really need the money. But to have to have an expectation that you are "working" for the players really turns me off. Too many times in the past, especially outside my own hand-picked groups, have I felt like running a session was like a job that didn't pay. For every player that brought me a six pack of high end beer, there were two who didn't seem to give a shit about what might be fun for me in the game. And I was giving it up for free. 

The added pressure of getting paid for it for sure does not appeal. A role playing game as customer service? Just like life in general I have found that when it comes to being a player the secret to happiness is managing your expectations. If you are paying somebody you certainly have high ones. 

Honestly, I think this notion is another side effect of  the popularity of Critical Role. 

Sandboxy enough for me

Sandbox. It’s a gaming term that many people will have a somewhat different definition for. What is it?

Well, unless you are all about totally “winging it” as a GM, you need to do a lot of prep on a lot of locations when you are thinking sandbox. Have all your ducks in a row, as they say. If you start players in a location, they can hear about and choose from a variety of directions and places to go. Head to the hills up North where rumors of giants with sacks of gold come from, or go to the Western Forest to visit the old abandoned wizard tower the barkeep has told you about. Maybe just head south and explore some wilderness hexes. The GM has something to offer no matter where the players might go.

Is this really sandbox, or are you just creating enough railroad tracks to make it seem like a sandbox (paraphrasing Frank Mentzer, I believe)?

In my teens I took a rare break from my own gameworld to do a few sessions of City State of the Invincible Overlord. The players made up characters, and I had them be non-natives showing up at the city gates. From there, they were free to go where they wanted. Go into that tavern and look for action? Sure. Go into the bath house and talk to the dolphin that just appeared in a pool? Whatever. Go down in the sewers to investigate rumors of a Wraith Overlord? Fine by me. It was a lot of fun, but lets face it – every one of those locations the player visited where set encounters with their own preset plot hooks and rumors and such. Was that true sandbox because the players decided which stores to go to first? I dunno.

I guess it is still something to taste that is very debatable. What do I think of trying to sandbox? Well, as a kid things seemed more freeform. But as adulthood started I was doing more plot driven things. I would not say railroady, because I have always thought the character freewill was important to the games. But If I start a game and say “you guys hear about a newly discovered system of caves under the city rumored to have monsters and treasures” and the players say “Naw, we’d rather go out in the woods and explore unmarked hexes” then I am probably already running a shit campaign that the players have no respect for anyway.

I think my current players want some freedom to do some things in-character that they want to do, but as far as the main adventure I think they want some fairly well defined goals. Go visit that dungeon, go explore this abandoned tower, go find that enemy who left us for dead.

Like right now I'm doing a 1st ed. campaign set in the Night Below. Pretty linear, right? But a couple of games ago a (rolled encounter) Minotaur hunting group appeared out of a side tunnel and eventually got defeated. Appearing to come from a larger group (they weren't bearing lots of supplies or water), the players decided to go down the side tunnels and look into it. The party druid changed into a bat and swooped down many miles of tunnels where I had to randomize everything, including a small minotaur fishing village and a minotaur giant maze city (something I had been thinking about for a while, and got the chance here to display it) that the players found mighty cool and unexpected (sadly, they decided to leave that place for their currents tasks at hand, maybe to return and explore more one day).

But players deciding to "got north instead of south to the dungeon" is great in small quantities, but I would get tired of that sooner or later no matter how creative I am. It's more fun for me if the players can decide on a solid goal and follow through with it, instead of going in the opposite direction from what I've prepared or burning down inns on a whim or whatever.

If I create a dungeon I want the players to go to it, not go in the opposite direction. I can handle it if they do, but they can think a little bit about my fun too. I'm a DM, not a damn civil servant.

Those old City state sessions from my teens were the most open and free games I ever ran, and the experience and challenge made me a decent and capable GM later in life. Generally, I think it is great to have some choices, but also for the DM to light a fire here and there to temp the players into certain actions. The best games are a combo of choice and available plot hooks. Sure, I could just tell players to go wander willy nilly and crack open the Old School Encounter reference and randomize every little thing. Hex by hex wilderness crawl or whatever. But I think most players want a GM to have certain plans for them (and those plans are at their best when they come in the form of the DM being inspired by the characters), while leaving some wiggle room for improv adventure.

The party knows about an old haunted tower outside of town that perks up their interest. But the party thieves want to go do a bit of pick pocketing at the market place while the rest of the party hits up the beer tent to buy some rounds for locals and maybe hear some rumors about the tower. That's cool. Sandboxy enough for me.