This last week, out of the blue, the group got a new female player (I’ll call her “J”). She’s in her early 20’s, very cute, and often entertainingly energetic in a way younger gamer grrls often are. Session-wise, a rarin’ to go and get on with the game type attitude I wish the long time players would have more of. After playing with pretty much the exact same folk for a handful of years now, it was sort of a refreshing sea breeze for me. Now, don’t claim I am sexist, because last year Big Ben had an old gamer buddy visiting in town and he joined one of our KOTOR sessions, and I loved the energy a new player brought to the group even then (OK, but maybe a little less then).
I guess I could write an entire post about “J,” and her first game with us, but what I wanted to get around to was the fact that her first game with us was my classic Runequest game. Now, “J” is a 3rd edition D&D player. No, really, she is young but has the type of “this or that crazy thing happened to my character in a game” war stories us older guys usually joke about. But like I said, she was a goer, and dove right into a game she had never even heard of before.
What probably stood out in her mind as the biggest difference between RQ and D&D was the whole hit point thing. Sure Runequest has hit points similar to D&D. But whereas in D&D you go up significantly in HP as you level, in RQ there are no levels, and your hit points will remain constant. Worse, each body part has a fraction of the full hit points. If an arm or leg takes enough damage, it will be destroyed. Same for head and torso. So bottom line you have a fair chance to be killed or crippled outright from a blow by even the most unskilled warrior if they got past your defenses.
Now here’s D&D with that famously abstract hit point system. Two guys the same size and mass could have insanely different hit points. Like, farmer boy has 2, and 10th level fighter boy has 90. The disparity is seen most when cross referenced with small bladed weapons that do a D4 or a D6 in damage. The farmer’s son is going to probably go down in one hit, while the fighter laughs as, several hits later, he is still floating like a butterfly and stinging like a bee in the fight.
This was merrily explained in early D&D as a combo meal of realities. Lots of the HP is luck. When somebody attacks you and hits (lets not get into the luck part of getting hit or not in an attack in the first place), the first furtive points they ding you down are mostly the “luck of the gods,” or the Irish, or whatever. You are “using up” some of that divine protection as you go. OK, the next veil beyond that abstraction is one of exhaustion. Here, some of the hit points are related to combat fatigue. You duck this blow here, backflip over another blow there. You are using up some of your combat “chutzpa” here. Yeah, like me you probably think that is a pretty small percentage. So after those first two abstractions, we get to what is real. The meaty flesh. Eventually you are out of luck and stamina for the fight, and now it is your flesh getting seriously blasted. The fighter with 90 HP is down to around 25 points or less when we start seeing real blood. The next blow could put the big guy down for the count.
Here’s a quick comment from an online forum on this very subject:
characters go from 'mortally wounded' to capable of fighting again within a week, but then the stronger and tougher they are, the longer it takes them to make a full recovery
Yeah, another weakness in the system is that more potent PC’s take longer to heal than lesser HP folk when they are taken down to low numbers. But again, really, a lot of that is luck and combat savvy building back up.
I've always looked at it sort of cinematically, which I think is actually perfect for old school D&D. I like the combo of luck, survival instincts, and good old meaty frame to explain the many "wonders" of abstract hit pointism. And you see this in action films.
Indy Jones tends to take a beating that would have most other people in traction at least. When he came out of the Temple of Doom and before the fight on the bridge, he had taken dozens of punches (most to the face), fought off a bunch of guys with spears, got hit by rocks, burned by a torch, and sliced with a dagger. Then proceeded to dodge arrows and fight a big Alistair Crowley looking guy on a broken bridge. He comes out of it laughing and dancing and getting jiggy with that Willy chick in the end. No worries. And what about Stallone characters? In First Blood Rambo gets roughed up and dry shaved by “The Man,” gets shot, falls from 100’ onto rocks, gets exploded by a rocket launcher, attacked by rats, and goes on to blow up a town and machine gun a fat sheriff. Never mind what he goes through in Rambo 2, or Rocky 4 for that matter.
What those dudes all have in common are survival friendly hit point totals. Probably in the 80 range. In the abstract sense, you even see Cap’n Kirk and his fellow upper management friends’ dance around godlike beings and energy aliens, while lesser hit point dudes in red shirts get vaporized in all sorts of horrible ways. There are heavy luck factors making up those hit points.
Sure, you can look at the more mortal, sectioned hit points of a game like Runequest as a sort of more realistic cinematic type thing (like in 300, or a Scorseses film), but nothing lends itself to “how the hell did he live through all that shit” Hollywood heroics like good old massive D&D hit points.
I don't know, I've *always* hated D&D's hit point mechanism. Even in my olden AD&D days I used to replacd hit points with "constitution points" (and that was before I'd even discovered BRP).
ReplyDeleteToday with the nostalgic wave of OSR I am running D&D-ish games again, but NEVER with the D&D hit points mechanism. It's just too silly.
I always liked how Kevin Siembieda described the difference between "Hit Points" and "Structural Damage Capacity" (SDC) in his games. SDC goes up, HP stays the same. HP measure how much serious traumatic damage your PC can handle.
ReplyDeleteIn his first RIFTS handbook, I recall him comparing SDC to a John Wayne movie where he gets punched around, shot once or twice but it's only a flesh wound, and then knocks the badguys out. If, however, he got shot and his HP went down, that would signify a gut-shot wound, or a punctured lung. He's in bad shape and could very well die.
White Wolf's system was the most abstract I've seen--however, it's also oddly the most realistic I've seen.
Anyway, when I'm running D&D, I usually describe HP damage as exhaustion, bruises, knicks, grazing blows, contusions/concussions, pulled muscles, and the kind of wear-and-tear you experience performing any sort of extremely strenuous physical activity. I also like to use the Critical Hit charts from the 2.5 Combat & Tactics books for called shots (not critical hits, per se). I try to convey the idea that HP represents how long your body and your willpower can keep you going under such strenuous circumstances.
When you lose HP, it means your ability to fend off blows is decreasing and the odds of your opponent landing a killing strike is increasing. He's finding openings in your defense that you are having more and more difficulty closing.
I like high hit points, but that's because I like cinematic games. Actually I like Pathfinder's version of the wound/vigor system. It has the ability to take dozens of hits while still letting you take a significant wound now and then.
ReplyDeleteI see the HP abstraction slightly differently - not as luck-points ablate, and then stamina-points ablate, and then physical; I narrate it as high-hit-point characters "partially-dodging" all successful attacks, turning them into mere scratches.
ReplyDeleteThat has advantages in some cases, because I don't have to square up how a snake bite or something that only hit "luck points" still managed to inject poison.
OK... So how do you guys manage a fighter with 100 HP falling off a cliff, taking 10D6 of damage, and quietly walking away?
ReplyDeleteI'd probably also give that falling fighter some broken bones for sure. Broken leg, maybe an arm. Put it to some dice.
ReplyDeleteI think something like 50 hit points to a 100 hit point guy in one round is a lot of trauma. If a red dragon did that with breath I might give him blotched, red skin patches for the rest of his life unless most of it got quickly healed. I for sure take into consideration massive damage, and like to give an affect, even permanant, besides just the hp loss. I'll usually put it to a dice roll to help me decide.
One answer to the cliff fall is that - the fighter didn't fall. He's lost the HP but he's holding on by his fingers somewhere near where he started.
ReplyDeleteAlso: everyone gets all their HP back in a month in AD&D, regardless of how many HP that is.
ReplyDeleteEven in real life many who fall seem to often have vastly different levels of injury in similar falls. Such as in the Rambo example, he falls at least a hundred feet, but at around 60 feet or so he starts kareeming off of branches. So less damage on the roll. Some other guy takes a lot? Unlucky guy missed the branches.
I didn't know about the heal all up in a month thing. Interesting. And enough time to heal a broken arm, and most of a broken leg (just painful for a long time - no such thing as phys therapy in D&D)